Subastas Reales Rusas

Enlace a mi tienda en ebid. Iré subiendo más moneditas de mi colección

https://stores.ebid.net/moneditis

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Noviembre es un mes intercalado entre octubre y diciembre…de paso, por el medio… por lo que voy a echar un vistazo a las subastas de Sedwick y Konros, USA y Rusia, a falta de nada mejor que hacer… numismáticamente hablando  🙂  Añadir que, por la cercanía de la Navidad, todos los años desde hace unos cuantos, siempre hay una gran concentración de subastas por estas fechas; mera política comercial.

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=sale&sid=4266

https://auction.sedwickcoins.com/auctionlist.aspx

Multitud de lingotes, macuquinas, peluconas, galanos, onzas…

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=4266&lot=21

Mexico City, Mexico, cob 8 escudos Royal (galano), 1713J, extremely rare, NGC MS 66, finest and only example graded by NGC, ex-1715 Fleet (designated on special label). S-M30; Cal-2194; KM-R57.1. 27.03 grams. From the 1715 Fleet (Corrigan’s site), pictured on the cover of the November-December 1998 issue of Treasure Quest (a copy of which is included), with Fisher photo-certificate #42933, ex-Rudman. NGC #5909759-001.

Without question, the pinnacle of Spanish colonial coinage is the Mexican 8 escudos Royal (galano), a coin so large and beautiful and perfect as to be considered among the most desirable gold coins in the world. These 8 escudos Royals are quite rare, currently represented by just over 40 specimens across about a dozen dates within the 53-year span in which Mexico made gold cobs (1680-1732). There is no mistaking these special coins; while some regular cob issues come close (normally they are chunky and misshapen) and even some regular-planchet issues were struck with Royal dies (arguably trial or test strikes), only true Royals are perfectly round and evenly struck on planchets of uniform thickness, not to mention that they were generally struck with obverse and reverse in medallic alignment (the present specimen actually rotated 90 degrees, but still oriented with cross aligned). These are formal presentation pieces, to be sure, but the exact purpose of Royals remains unknown, the details behind their commission apparently missing in archival records beyond simple line-item figures labeled “galanos.” While some dates of 8 escudos Royals today are represented by multiple specimens (the most abundant being 1702, 1711 and 1714) others are extremely rare or even unique. The date 1713 is in fact among the rarest, with only two known, the specimen offered here being the finer of the two and the only one graded by NGC. In terms of condition and quality of strike, we feel it is also among the finest of all the known dates.

Like the majority of known 8 escudos Royals, this coin was recovered from the wreckage of the Spanish Plate Fleet of 1715, eleven ships sunk on the reefs off the east coast of Florida in a hurricane in July 1715. It was actually two fleets, the combined Tierra Firme Fleet coming from Cartagena loaded with Peruvian and Colombian treasures, and the New Spain Fleet coming from Mexico with freshly minted coins and Asian jewels from the Manila Galleon trade, united in Havana for the northeasterly trip back to Spain. What had been an annual system of shipping to and from the New World was delayed for many years by the War of Spanish Succession after Charles II’s death in 1700, causing the treasure to pile up in Mexico and Colombia. Spain desperately needed this wealth back home and could not wait for the Fleet to delay any longer when it finally left Havana in July, evidently right into the path of a hurricane. There were many survivors, who encamped on the shores opposite the wrecks, and Spain was able to organize some salvage, only to experience their other nemesis when pirates absconded with much of the recovered treasure. It is impossible to say how much of the 1715 Fleet treasure was saved in its time, or even how much was on board (as contraband could account for perhaps double the amount on the manifest); suffice to say the currently eight known wrecksites (some of which may be parts of the same ship) from present-day Melbourne down to Stuart (aptly called the “Treasure Coast”) have kept divers and beachcombers busy since at least the early 1960s, when Kip Wagner and the Real Eight Co. began organized salvage and instituted a State lease system that is still in place today. The first Royals, in fact, were found by Real Eight and offered at auction as early as 1964.

The coin we are offering here was recovered in August 1998, the find of a lifetime for diver Clyde Kuntz of the salvage vessel Bookmaker (captained by Greg Bounds), under a lease held by the Mel Fisher company , whose photo-certificate (“GRADE: One ++”) accompanies the coin. According to the November-December 1998 issue of Treasure Quest magazine, the cover of which features a photo of this coin, Clyde was working the “Corrigan’s” site , about five miles north of Vero Beach, when on the same day he found both this coin and another 8 escudos Royal dated 1698 (currently unique) that is now permanently housed in the State of Florida collection. The biggest single find of Royals came in the 2015 diving season, in which a staggering ten pieces (dated 1711, 1712 and 1715) were recovered under leases held by Queens Jewels, LLC (the current owner of the 1715-Fleet site leases). Subsequently, we appraised those coins for millions of dollars for Queens Jewels and the State of Florida, which gets a 20% cut of all finds.

The only other known 1713 example , reportedly found on the beach in the 1980s, made headlines in 1985 when it was sold at the January F.U.N. auction (Kurt Krueger) in Florida. The same coin sold in Switzerland in 1991 as part of the Emilio Ortiz collection. According to census information, that coin has not been graded, but we note that it was struck on a smaller flan (also slightly lower weight, at 26.84 grams) with slightly fewer peripheral details than the piece we offer here.

While any one of the Royals is a joy to behold, with full and well-struck details on big, round flans, in our 2015 appraisal we noted that there is actually a good bit of difference in quality (strike and condition) between all the known specimens, even within the same date, in addition to the differences in rarity. Anyone who has ever attempted striking a coin by hand knows that making coins like these requires great strength and dexterity. Hitting on dead center with full pressure on the entire canvas—without bouncing the hammer—is easier said than done. It is no exaggeration to say that a well-struck handmade coin demonstrates a level of skill far greater than what is required to make a beautiful milled coin. In fact, at least one researcher asserts instead that Mexican Royals must have been struck with a screw-press instead, using multiple pressings to achieve such completeness of detail. Also consider the dies: Each Royal die was specially prepared with as much care and aesthetics as the mint could muster, using the same punches available for regular issues but with greater attention paid to concatenation and placement, usually allowing for more ornamentation in the legends and around the inner details. The 1713 issue, for example, has strange X-shaped flowers that appear both as stops in the legend and as space-fillers in the four “corners” of the shield (an aspect of this date only). Presumably important and wealthy people (some would say the King himself) were depending on the mint to make these jewels as near to perfect as possible.

The twelve or thirteen known dates come in five basic types, most easily recognized by their styles of crosses:
Plain Cross: 1695 , 1698
Box-End Cross: 1702
Crosslet Cross: 1711, 1712, 1713
New Cross: 1714
New Cross with Bouquets: 1715, 1717, 1718 (if it exists), 1723, 1728/5, 1729
It should be noted that regular-issue 8 escudos also use these styles, in addition to two more types (used concurrently with others) that at present are NOT represented by any Royals:
Jeweled Cross: 1680-1699
Ornate-Tressure Cross: 1711-1712

While each date within the Crosslet-Cross type of Royals dated 1711-1713 is slightly different in execution, the basic design did not change and in fact marks the end of a rustic style replaced in 1714 with a vastly sharper and more polished design, which some believe can be traced to the implementation of press-type machinery. These post-1713 issues are also generally on smaller, thicker flans.

The 1713 we offer here—arguably finer than any of the known 1711’s and 1712’s and easily superior to the other known 1713—therefore represents the final perfection of the rustic style of the Crosslet-Cross type. Of course the complete lack of wear is a factor, but there is more to it than that: This coin is just SO WELL STRUCK that it glistens from every angle, its color changing from yellow to gold as it turns in the light, the exceptionally deep and skillful strike making sharp peaks out of every design element, with near-perfect centering (especially the obverse) and no doubling or weakness anywhere, all on a huge and essentially flawless flan that extends beyond the outer border of dots. This is best appreciated in hand, or at least in video, where movement reveals the flash of luster that so distinguishes this coin. Just as it has been up till now (in the Isaac Rudman numismatic cabinet), such a perfect specimen will be at home in any of the best coin collections currently being formed around the world, whether focused on colonials, U.S., world or even shipwreck. Mexican 8 escudos as a type are so rare that we have never offered one in our auctions before, and we are honored that our first is indeed one of the most beautiful coins we have ever offered. It will be hard to match this rarity and perfection for a long time.

Updated Census of Known Mexican 8 Escudos Royals by Date
Date King Assayer Quantity known
1695 Charles II L 1
1698 Charles II L 1
1702 Philip V J 7
1711 Philip V J 8
1712 Philip V J 4
1713 Philip V J 2
1714 Philip V J 9
1715 Philip V J 5
1717 Philip V J 1
1718 Philip V J 0
1723 Philip V J 1
1728/5 Phi.V/Louis I D 1
1729 Philip V R 1

_________________________
FOOTNOTES:

– As the table at the end of this article shows, only twelve dates are confirmed, with one more mentioned in references.

– Mel Fisher had worked with Real Eight from 1963 to 1972 and then moved to Key West to pursue salvage on the 1622 Fleet (Atocha and Santa Margarita). Real Eight maintained the 1715-Fleet leases until abandoning them in 1977. Mel Fisher resumed salvage on the 1715 Fleet in 1979. In 2010, Mel Fisher’s family sold the leases to Queens Jewels LLC, which manages salvage there today.

– The wrecksites of the 1715 Fleet are referred to by nicknames as opposed to the actual names of the ships themselves, because in most cases it is uncertain where each of the ships sank. “Corrigan’s” is named after 1950s beachcomber Hugh Corrigan, whose house fronted that stretch of beach.

– Amazingly, this other 1713 was struck from different dies from the present coin. In fact, most if not all of the non-unique dates exhibit multiple dies. Our theory is that the amount of striking pressure required to properly make these big coins with full and bold details caused the dies to break after only a few strikes, and probably there were lots of failed attempts that were just re-melted. While it seems like a waste of resources to make fresh dies to net just a few coins (or less!), consider that these were special issues commissioned by or for wealthy dignitaries who could afford the extra expense and didn’t need lots of coins.

– The single-known specimen of the date 1695, originally sold in the Ubilla-Echevez auction by Christensen in 1967, set a record in 2009 for the most ever paid for a Spanish American gold coin at close to $600,000.
The “bouquets” are floral-bouquet ornaments in the dimples of the tressures and appear only on Royals. They are not the same as the “daggers” in the same positions on the New Cross issues of 1714 and 1715.

– Researcher Philip Flemming points out that the Plain Cross was “aesthetically a better choice” for Royals than the Jeweled Cross, but why the Ornate-Tressure Cross was not used on Royals is a mystery (December 2016 issue of the U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association’s Journal).

– This table is adapted from Kent Ponterio’s preface to Ponterio and Associates’ Auction #108 on April 7-8, 2000. Kent listed only publicly known examples, with detailed information of their appearances. Our only updates to Kent’s work are the addition of ten 8 escudos Royals found in 2015 (seven 1711s, two 1712s and one 1715) and a correction to the 1728 (now recognized as 1728/5 and PHILIPPVS/LVDOVICVS).

– Spanish references by Calicó (Numismática española [2020] and La Onza [2004]) and Tauler (Oro Macuquino [2011]) do list the date 1718, but without photos or any other information. The whereabouts of any specimen(s) is unknown to us, so for now we treat it as quantity 0.

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=4266&lot=487

Lote 487. Nueva clasificación / asignada erróneamente con anterioridad

https://auction.sedwickcoins.com/Mexico-City-Mexico-cob-8-reales-Royal-galano-1615-4F-very-rare-three-known-NGC-AU-details_i38817259

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=4266&lot=490

Lote 490. Raro galano

Y muchas moneditas más, además de objetos de naufragio, joyas…Curiosa subasta. ¡Os invito a dar una vuelta y disfrutarla! Habrá que estar atentos a los precios de adjudicación.

Más asequible – menos exclusiva, además de muchas otras diferencias y/o características, es la subasta de noviembre en sala de Konros

https://auction.conros.ru/olive/816/flash/

Pocos oros a la venta; hay demanda – poca disponibilidad. Bastantes rublos y medios de plata, además de denominaciones menores

https://auction.conros.ru/lot/2669306/816/0/

Adjudicado en 155.000 rublos + comisión (+- 1.900 €)

Рубль 1723 года «В горностаевой мантии»

В 1723 году портрет на рублевых монетах меняется, причем дважды. Первый вариант — у нумизматов он получил прозвище «тигровик» – примечателен тем, что на нем латы царя прикрыты горностаевой мантией, а на груди — знаки ордена Св. Андрея Первозванного. В обрезе рукава вновь появляется знак ОК. Выделяют четыре типа лицевой стороны по наличию и размеру андреевского креста на груди.

Разновидности оборотной стороны различаются расположением букв легенды против i.

Гуртовая надпись – «Российский рубль Московского двора», по всей видимости, такое обозначение продукции московского Кадашевского двора связано с ожидаемым началом работы нового монетного двора в Санкт-Петербурге.

Легенда лицевой стороны – «Петр А (Алексеевич) Император и Самодержец Всероссийский», оборотной – «Монета новая цена рубль» и дата арабскими цифрами. Проба — 729, вес 28, 44 грамма.

96 копеек 1757

https://auction.conros.ru/lot/2669315/816/0/

Adjudicado en 160.000 rublos + comisión (+- 1.950 €)

96 копеек «Ливонез»

Следующий номинал является очень непривычным для российской системы денежного обращения, поскольку ориентирован не на десятеричную, талерную. Внешнеполитические успехи елизаветинского времени оставили свой след в двух региональных выпусках монет. Первый — это монеты для прибалтийских провинций Ливонии и Эстляндии.

Необычный номинал свидетельствует о попытке привязать русскую денежную систему к талерной, основанной на 12-кратном счете и привычной для населения провинций. На оборотных сторонах монет 96, 48 и 24 копейки в клювах орла на лентах подвешены гербы городов Риги и Ревеля (с 1917 года — Таллин).

Чеканились в Москве на Красном дворе петербургскими штемпелями работы Б. Скотта.

Лицевая сторона — портрет императрицы, оборотная — российский двуглавый орел с гербами Риги и Ревеля и надпись MONETA LIVOESTHONICA, цифра 96 и дата. Проба — 750, нормативный вес — 26,38 грамма, гурт — узор.

Por aquí os dejo los enlaces de las dos (2) últimas subastas en sala anteriores, para que comparéis

https://auction.conros.ru/clive/809/flash/

https://auction.conros.ru/clive/805/flash/

P.S. En próxima subasta de Vico, curioso 8 escudos platino 1776 – Lima, falsa de época

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=4291&lot=538

Lot 538         Starting Price: 600 EUR  Minimum bid: 600 EUR

8 escudos. 1776. Lima. MI. Falsa de época en platino dorado. 27,1 g. Barrera-358. MBC+.

Abriendo la imagen en pestaña aparte se aprecian mejor los detalles

Analysis silver coins 16th to 19 th century

Os dejo 266 interesantes páginas sobre lo que dice la cabecera y la imagen inferior de esta entrada. Para los que anden justos de tiempo, discusión en la página 220 y conclusiones en la 238. Yo no me perdería la bibliografía. Al final tenéis el pdf completo.

Analysis_of_16_th_to_19_th_Century_Silve

¡¡Ufff!!  ¡¡Agotador!!  🙂

P.S. He pensado en esta moneda,  https://moneditis.com/2020/02/05/8-reales-macuquinos-sevilla-y-lima-para-posible-xrf/   entre otras, en algún momento de la lectura de esta tesis…pero ya no me acuerdo…

Sedwick Subasta 24

Las subastas de Daniel Sedwick son específicas de naufragios, con sus correspondientes interesantes historias  https://www.sedwickcoins.com/shipwreck_histories.htm  Estas historias suelen estar incluídas en las primeras páginas de sus catálogos   https://www.sedwickcoins.com/archive.htm

Pero a lo que íbamos…Siempre es interesante repasar anteriores subastas para suponer por donde “van a ir los tiros”. He seleccionado algunos lotes, más o menos a voleo

https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=5336&page=3

Session II, Lot 272

Atocha, sunk in 1622 west of Key West, Florida
Lot of three Mexico City, Mexico, cob 8 reales, Philip III, assayer D (where visible), Grade 3, with HRC replacement certificates.
Lot of three Mexico City, Mexico, cob 8 reales, Philip III, assayer D (where visible), Grade 3, with HRC replacement certificates. 23.28, 17.91 and 13.65 grams. Generally good shields and crosses despite varying degrees of edge-loss from corrosion. With Fisher tags and HRC replacement certificates #159688, 159683 and 207280. Recovered from: Atocha, sunk in 1622 west of Key West, Florida

Estimate: 600 USD   |   Starting price: 480 USD

https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=5336&page=5

Session II, Lot 410

Capitana, sunk in 1654 off Chanduy, Ecuador
Potosi, Bolivia, cob 8 reales, 1650O, with THREE crowned countermarks (two T’s on shield, one script-P on cross), extremely rare.
Potosi, Bolivia, cob 8 reales, 1650O, with THREE crowned countermarks (two T’s on shield, one script-P on cross), extremely rare. S-P35; KM-19b; CT-509. 18.49 grams. Two impressively clear T countermarks (one 100% full) on a well-detailed shield with full P-O and 😯 to sides, also full but doubled date on other side (variety with dots between digits) that features a nearly full script-P countermark, the whole coin thin from corrosion and with edge-split but nicely toned. Recovered from: Capitana, sunk in 1654 off Chanduy, Ecuador

Estimate: 350 USD   |   Starting price: 350 USD

https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=5336&page=6

Session II, Lot 573

Spanish 1733 Fleet, Florida Keys
Mexico City, Mexico, pillar 8 reales, Philip V, 1733F, ex-Coffins Patch.
Mexico City, Mexico, pillar 8 reales, Philip V, 1733F, ex-Coffins Patch. KM-103; CT-775. 26.42 grams. Really beautiful for a shipwreck coin, with bold full AU details enhanced by contrasting toning on fields and the barest trace of surface corrosion all over, great combination of attractive design and strike and preservation. From the “Coffins Patch” site, with certificate from the salvager, pedigreed to our Auction #6, with original lot-tag #492. Recovered from: Spanish 1733 Fleet, Florida Keys

Estimate: 1’000 USD   |   Starting price: 800 USD

Session II, Lot 592

Reijgersdaal, sunk in 1747 off South Africa
Mexico City, Mexico, pillar 8 reales, Philip V, 1742MF.
Mexico City, Mexico, pillar 8 reales, Philip V, 1742MF. KM-103; CT-793. 26.66 grams. Lovely UNC details enhanced by beautifully toned fields, faint trace of corrosion near pillars-side rim only. Pedigreed to our Auction #6, with original lot-tag #559. Recovered from: Reijgersdaal, sunk in 1747 off South Africa

Estimate: 300 USD   |   Starting price: 240 USD

https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=5336&page=7

Session II, Lot 619

Cazador, sunk in 1784 off New Orleans
Large clump of 73(+/-) Spanish colonial bust 8 reales of Charles III (one loose).
Large clump of 73(+/-) Spanish colonial bust 8 reales of Charles III (one loose). 1820 grams total; roughly 4″ x 3-1/2″ x 3″. Massive conglomeration of several short stacks of coins at all angles, totally uncleaned and with predominant colors of green, gray, tan and white, including a few small oyster shells and worms, a very natural, attractive and impressive display. Big clumps like this are rarely encountered due to the irresistible urge to take such things apart to look for rarities! Recovered from: Cazador, sunk in 1784 off New Orleans

Estimate: 5’000 USD   |   Starting price: 5’000 USD

https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=5336&page=13

Session IV, Lot 1266

Saint Lucia
Saint Lucia (French or British), 6 livres 15 sous, “S.Lucie” incuse countermark (1813) on obverse of parallel-cut Spanish colonial bust 8 reales dated 1799, NGC VF details / scratches (tag only).
Saint Lucia (French or British), 6 livres 15 sous, “S.Lucie” incuse countermark (1813) on obverse of parallel-cut Spanish colonial bust 8 reales dated 1799, NGC VF details / scratches (tag only). KM-10.2; Pridmore-9. 15.34 grams. Beginning on Jan. 20, 1813, cut 8 reales were authorized for circulation as money on the island. The act specified that the cut pieces must be cut vertically along the pillars, leaving the shield in center intact. Such cut coinage circulated until Aug. 1, 1851, when the majority of issued pieces was redeemed. Countermark is a deeply impressed XF with host coin VF, edge bump at lower right, some old scratches on reverse now toned over. NGC #2801284-007 (tag only)

Estimate: 700 USD   |   Starting price: 550 USD

https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=5336&page=19

Session VII, Lot 1896

Sabina, sunk in 1842 off South Africa
Lot of ten Spanish colonial bust 8 reales, various mints and periods.
Lot of ten Spanish colonial bust 8 reales, various mints and periods. 204.53 grams total. Nice mix of dates and mints including a Santiago, Chile, 1816FJ and two Durango-minted War for Independence issues. All corroded and polished but with visible dates and mintmarks, some with assayers visible. With generic certificates from the salvagers. Recovered from: Sabina, sunk in 1842 off South Africa

Estimate: 300 USD   |   Starting price: 240 USD

¡Muuuuuchas moneditas y artefactos diversos!

Resello / marca 8 escudos

Curioso resello / contramarca / marca en este 8 escudos 1791, CECA  Potosí. Así como sobre los 8 reales es habitual encontrar resellos / contramarcas / marcas, ya sean de bancos, comerciantes chinos, indios…, de familia, gubernamentales…sobre los escudos (oro) no es, ni mucho menos, tan común.

11

 

No se corresponde con ninguno de estos

http://www.chopmarks.com/onzas/onzas.shtm

Aunque se parece a este de Sumatra en 8 reales

http://www.chopmarks.com/jose-antonio-de-la-fuente/pdf/Asia_y_Oceania.pdf

2

Para saber más

http://www.chopmarks.org/joomla/images/Chopmark_News_2/CCC%20vol%2016%20-%20issue%201%20March%202012.pdf

Probablemente se trate de una marca de un banco o familiar.

Gracias a Alberto de Finumás por este “monedón”  😉

http://www.finumas.es/

Subasta 20 Ibercoin 22 de octubre

Ayer todo el día “liao”. Por la mañana examinando lotes en las oficinas de ibercoin en Madrid, c/ Francisco Gervás 14,

345

Lote 311: Felipe II Ducatón 1582 Milán 28,61 g 300 € Adjudicado por 460 € + 18 %

1

Lote 3117 adjudicado en 110 € + 18 %

y por la tarde en el Hotel Meliá Castilla, en la c/ Capitán Haya 43

2

adjudicándose el lote 437 al cartón 22, o sea yo, por 70,80 € según dice mi factura.  8 reales 1784 Potosí PR. Son los que aparecen a continuación

8R1784lot437

http://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=2275&category=45707&lot=1926168

que comparados con esta otra vendida el 3 de diciembre de 2014 también por Ibercoin

8R1784lot3405Dic14

http://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2249682

da que pensar. Quizá mismos cuños / troquel de anverso por exceso de metal en cuello del rey, grafía, rotura en S de CAROLUS…o clon / copia / falsificación. También reverso excepto vano de acuñación. El XRF aclarará el dilema.

Aquí os dejo catálogo y precios realizados.

http://www.ibercointienda.com/images/iberphil/dig/catpdf/ibercoirn20.pdf

http://www.ibercointienda.com/images/lotes_pdf/Numismatica%2022%20Octubre%202015.pdf

http://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=2275&category=45707

psI: Puesto que Cayón, Martí Hervera y Vico me prohíben comprar en sus subastas (ya sabéis por qué lo hacen), siendo los que mandan en la AENP y a la espera de que cumplan sus amenazas de denuncia, sigo y analizo subastas de otras casas que me permiten acceder y comprar 8 reales.

psII:       17-LOS 8 REALES DE MÓDULO GRANDE DE POTOSÍ

http://www.administraciondigital.es/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=289:17-los-8-reales-de-m%C3%B3dulo-grande-de-potos%C3%AD

psIII: Muy probable clon en la próxima subasta de Vico detectada aquí http://www.imperio-numismatico.com/t101792-posibles-8-reales-segovianos-falsos-felipe-iv#919522

psIV: https://moneditis.com/tag/xrf/

psV: http://www.imperio-numismatico.com/t37371p84-debate-numismatico-interesante#919837

psVI: http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/videos/los-oficios-de-la-cultura/oficios-cultura-grabador-moneda/1236501/

psVII: Más posibles / probables clones segovianos de Cayón y Martí Hervera   http://www.imperio-numismatico.com/t101938-nuevo-caso-otra-vez-8-reales-segovianos-1660#920694

psVIII: ¿Se acerca la Navidad, hay montones de subastas numismáticas y los subasteros aprovechan para sacar todo su material? Parece que si 😉

psIX: http://www.imperio-numismatico.com/t101076p72-subasta-de-ibercoin-el-22-de-octubre-de-2015

Desde la ignorancia lanzo mi pregunta ¿puede un defecto en el cuño producir en serie monedas con los los mismos  excesos de metal?
Un saludo.

No. A “grosso modo”, los excesos de metal se producen al aplicar cuño / troquel sobre el cospel caliente una vez pasado por la cerrilla (cadeneta canto) y, en la operación, quedar el sobrante.

Muy probablemente esta moneda sea un clon / copia / falsificación, pero hasta que no la pase por el espectrómetro… scratch study

 psX: y último.El XRF ha confirmado la no autenticidad de la acuñación en Potosí el año 1784 de estos 8 reales. Puesto en contacto telefónicamente y por correo electrónico con Ibercoin, el responsable de numismática está de viaje hasta el lunes 2 de noviembre, por lo que a partir del martes 3 procederé a su devolución y os haré saber el proceso / disposición de esta casa de subastas. No creo que por 70,80 € se compliquen, peeeero….Falsificación devuelta
ibercoin

8 reales falsos

Unas falsificaciones en aliexpress

http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=8+reales&catId=&initiative_id=SB_20140706081001

http://es.aliexpress.com/store/product/1782-Bolivia-8-Reales-Carlos-III-COPY-COIN/1800265_32328998195.html?spm=2114.04020208.3.122.B0ymqI&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201527_1_71_72_73_74_75,searchweb201560_9

8 reales con comentarios de UK, España, Rusia…

http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/1731-Spain-8-Reales-coins/1767521244.html

¡Impresionante! Explorando un poco encuentras casi todo tipo de moneda reproducida / falsificada por poco más de 1 /2 euros.

8 reales de busto de subasta FALSOS IV

8 reales Potosí 1823 Fernando VII

Lote 926 Jose A. Herrero subasta 28 de mayo de 2014 (5 monedas)

a

Peso:26,62 gramos    Diámetro / Módulo:  38,5 mm (38,23 mm a 38,95 mm)

b

Marca de punzón desde el reverso. Marcada asimetría en gráfila. Desgaste regular en general. PLVS VLTRA desgaste / acuñación irregular. DEI tipos dispares. Múltiples rayas. Pátina artificial. Pequeñas oxidaciones.

Ausencia de Au en el XRF

Quantification of sample 8R1823POT

R.M.S.: 0.000
Sum before normalization: 102.1 %
Normalised to: 100.0 %

Element Conc.

(%)
1 Ag 93.41
2 Cu 4.32
3 Cl 0.79
4 Na 0.61
5 Si 0.34
6 Ca 0.25
7 K 0.07
8 Al 0.07
9 P 0.07
10 Pb 0.04
11 S 0.01

c

Canto irregular y quizá en exceso sobresaliente / en relieve

Cantos a 180 º buscando superposición del cordón  ¤o¤o¤o¤o CORRECTA

de

Marcas diversas en anverso

fg

Microscopio

h

Estructura metálica.

ij

Detalles particulares

klm

Reverso menos dañado, excepto punzón

no

Tipos IND discordantes

p

Dudas, preguntas, aclaraciones… http://www.imperio-numismatico.com/t77060p228-falsas-de-subastas#859378

La semana que viene el columnario de control y las conclusiones

8 reales de busto de subasta FALSOS II

8 reales con resellos chinos Potosí 1808

a

Peso: 26,51 g. Diámetro / Módulo: 39 mm (38,69 mm a 39,19 mm)

b

Vano. Descentrados / asimetría. Tipos del reverso sospechosos HISPAN ET IND  + grosores.  Gráfila no concluyente. Distintos leones reverso.

Ausencia de Au

Quantification of sample 8R1808POTRESELL

R.M.S.: 0.000
Sum before normalization: 103.1 %
Normalised to: 100.0 %

Element Conc.(%)
1 Ag 92.20
2 Cu 2.50
3 Ca 1.97
4 Cl 1.35
5 Si 0.67
6 Na 0.56
7 Pb 0.25
8 Al 0.16
9 S 0.13
10 K 0.12
11 P 0.10

c

Cantos a 180 º buscando superposición inexistente/dañada/no detectada del cordón  ¤o¤o¤o¤o

d

¿Canto / cordoncillo de fantasía?

g

Microscopio

e

Detalle de los resellos chinos en anverso

f

Dudas, preguntas,aclaraciones…en  http://www.imperio-numismatico.com/t77060p216-falsas-de-subastas

Real de a Ocho

Interesante artículo sobre el real de a ocho

El_Real_ocho-1

http://www.mecd.gob.es/cultura-mecd/gl/dms/mecd/cultura-mecd/areas-cultura/museos/mc/actasnumis/volumen-ii/El_Real_ocho.pdf

El_Real_ocho-2

Son 10 páginas de fácil lectura.

Me quedo con que hacia 1780 los totales anuales exportados por el mundo de esta moneda fueron  de 17,61 millones de unidades, según el Sr. Attman. Hispaniarum Globalización